As my friends and I began having children I started to see that it was not just a phenomenon of my youth, but even among my friends and acquaintances there were First Name Moms and Mrs. Moms.
What I found even more surprising was that the it seemed to work that the moms would decide what their kids would call other moms, usually without asking preferences. I guess that's a parenting style?
But if anyone ever does ask I tell them to call me "Mrs. Engstrom" or at least "Mrs. E." This isn't a backhanded way to try to get my friends to comply with my preferences, but I thought I would share the seven reasons why I prefer being a Mrs. Mom.
1 - I am your friend, not your child's.
Are we friends? Great! Call me Bonnie. But even the teachers at my kids' schools and the nurses and doctors who have cared for my family will call me Mrs. Engstrom because I'm not friends with them. I'm not friends with your children either. They are friends with my children and should call them by their first names but they should call me Mrs. Engstrom.
The only time I make exceptions for this is with godparents. There should be an intimacy with godparents that does not exist with other non-family member adults.
2 - It makes me an authority figure to children, someone they should obey and someone they can come to for help.
This is surely heavily influenced by my own experiences, but the Mrs. Moms were always the ones I trusted most as authorities. Just as a police officer or teacher would be obeyed and someone a child knows they can go to for help, when a child sees me as an authority it makes it so much easier to keep him safe.
3 - It honors my marriage.
Being Mrs. Engstrom communicates a lot of information. It lets people know that my husband, our kids, and I all go together. And honestly, because I so love and respect my husband, it thrills me to known as his wife. Our marriage is a happy one and any time it can be acknowledged makes me feel like the luckiest woman on earth.
4 - It distinguishes between adulthood and childhood.
A friend of mine grew up in the 1950's and shared with me that when she was young one had to accomplish something in their life before they were considered mature enough to call their elders by first names. Marriage or a college degree were the basic standards, though I believe returning from military service or building a successful career were also acceptable. I am quite drawn to the practice, to acknowledging the difference between the two stages of life but also acknowledging when a person stops being a child and becomes a man or woman.
5 - It makes sense with my husband's job.
My husband is a teacher and is known as Mr. Engstrom or Mr. E. There are plenty of times when we are out together and run into ones of his students. As our children age and their friends become his students it just makes good sense that we are Mr. and Mrs. Engstrom all the time, not just during school hours and on school grounds.
6 - It shows respect.
If we were to meet the president, queen, or see our doctor or priest we would not refer to any of them by their first name. We would respect their title and call them by it: Mr. President, Your Majesty, Dr. Smith, Father Thompson. By calling all adults Mr. or Mrs. we are automatically communicating to our kids that they should be respected, while teaching them a societal standard.
7 - I'm not a cool mom.
Nor do I want to be. I want kids to have fun at my house, while playing with my kids, but I never want them to think that I don't have standards and expectations for them. I would much rather let them know that I will always have cookies and fresh fruit for them, but never beer. I can be counted on to get them safely to and from events, but I won't be okay with them going to a house party. Parenting children is not about being friends or being liked - it's about being someone who will love, nurture, provide and care for. That's not cool, but it's what I want.
So there's my reasons. I'd love to hear if you're a Mrs. Mom or a First Name Mom and why. In the words of Pat Benatar, hit me with your best shot.
I've always been called Mrs. Ballard by my children's friends, and encouraged my boys to call adults Mr. or Mrs. Whatever unless specifically asked to do otherwise. My sons are now 24 and 16, and I'm hitting the first ever problem. My son is married, and I can't for the life of me get my daughter-in-law to call me Angie! I was very close friends with my MIL, and she encouraged all her DILs (4 of us) to call her by her first name. It was a symbol of our closeness - a closeness I'd love to have with my DIL. Also, one of my eldest son's childhood friends is a writer, and even though I'm critiqueing his work as a fellow writer his impeccible manners won't allow him to call me Angie, even though we need to be on an equal level for writing purposes. Not huge problems, but ones that I can see multiplying when my youngest grows up. Just food for thought!
ReplyDeleteThe daughter in law thing would be tough for me, too. I wonder if she's just so used to you as Mrs. Ballard that it might take a few years to break that.
DeleteFunny enough, now that my in-laws and parents are grandparents I usually refer to them with their grandparent title.
As for the writing one, I think it would still be appropriate for you, as a mentor, to be called Mrs. Ballard. No? Maybe?
I also address my father in law as Mr., though he would like me to call him by his first name. It doesn't seem right to me to be so familiar, so I persist- I think he has given up now. I generally refer to him as Grampy since that is what our kids call him. What to do, what to do....
DeleteAngie, I have a similar problem. I have known my MIL since I waa 10 so she has always been Mrs. It's been really weird to be Mrs. myself because of that. She has never asked me to call her anything else (and I've been married for 6 years) and a lot of people find it weird that I still call her Mrs., but I think the invitation has to come from the older party and she should have said it. What's really weird now is that 2 years ago another DIL joined the family but she lives in CA so she has different standards about this kind of thing (we're from the south) and she's only ever known her as an adult so she calls her by her first name! Oh well! Good for you for taking the lead with names though!
DeleteBonnie- HELP. I have such a hard time with this. I REALLY want my kids to refer to our friends/acquaintances by their last name, BUT, so many of them prefer to be called by their first names, or Miss Bonnie (Miss Mary). I don't know what to do about it. I know to my friends it seems so formal, but I, honestly, think it helps breed respect for elders (can I still use that term?) to refer to people by their last names... I am 35 and still refer to most adults I knew in my youth as Mr/Mrs.... any suggestions?
ReplyDeleteWell, you could share this article with them. ;)
DeleteI think it's one of those things were you have to follow people's preferences when you're with them, however, in your home you can refer to them as Mr. and Mrs. SoandSo. I think you can still ask to be called Mrs. Wilkerson or Mrs. W, though. I wholeheartedly agree that it helps to instill respect for elders to use last names.
Personally, I cringe a little every time someone calls me Miss Bonnie. I'm a married woman and I'm not a preschool teacher. At least call me Mrs. Bonnie, please.
And, yes, even today I call the Mrs. Moms by their last names. Old habits die hard. :)
We have family friends who our kids call by their first names, but by Mr. Jeff or Ms. Amanda...so we kind of do it half and half with those special family friends.
DeleteI am definitely a "Mrs." mom. I loved everything about this article. I have definitely pulled the "Miss Tammi" with toddlers or little ones who have a harder time with my last name but that tends to be for events that are a "one time thing" but its really rare. Unfortunately, I usually will correct my children if someone says, "just call me Deb"....I will turn to my kids and say "Miss Deb". I want my children (and the adult) to know how they are to be "viewed". Some adults need to be reminded "You are not my child's friend". haha.
ReplyDeleteI like to correct (er, steer) my children's friends who call me "Avery's Mom" to call me Ms. Zeone, because I feel Mrs. is my mother in law's title. That's my personal preference, I use Ms. on all forms that ask for prefixes, but I will not correct someone who calls me a Mrs.- which is most of their friends because their parents taught them good manners. I know, I'm weird. Husband knew this before we committed to marriage. :-)
ReplyDeleteI do have to say that I was called a "cool mom" by our new neighbor the other day. When I asked her why, she responded because I play with her and the other children. (I play with them because I don't want them in our garage complaining of boredom.) I think you can still be a cool mom without letting kids run wild... At least in the eyes of an 8 year old, I'm the "cool mom." :-)
That is SO funny to me, Alicia! I think of Ms. as a title for a divorced woman, but I know you're happily married. :) Thanks for sharing your perspective - very interesting.
DeleteAnd we'll see about the Cool Mom thing. I'm glad for you but I doubt I'll ever get that ranking.
I think you're a cool mom. ;-)
DeleteI think you're a cool mom. ;-)
DeleteI like to correct (er, steer) my children's friends who call me "Avery's Mom" to call me Ms. Zeone, because I feel Mrs. is my mother in law's title. That's my personal preference, I use Ms. on all forms that ask for prefixes, but I will not correct someone who calls me a Mrs.- which is most of their friends because their parents taught them good manners. I know, I'm weird. Husband knew this before we committed to marriage. :-)
ReplyDeleteI do have to say that I was called a "cool mom" by our new neighbor the other day. When I asked her why, she responded because I play with her and the other children. (I play with them because I don't want them in our garage complaining of boredom.) I think you can still be a cool mom without letting kids run wild... At least in the eyes of an 8 year old, I'm the "cool mom." :-)
This is really good Bonnie! Haha, I have no consistency on this, and we've gotten into the habit of calling our close family friends Aunt or Uncle which I'm sure will screw my children up for life.
ReplyDeleteDon't worry, Christy!!! They'll figure it out! I grew up calling my friends' parents Mr. or Mrs., but my parents' close friends Aunt or Uncle. (And my college and adulthood friends know my parents by their first names, though they were DEFINITELY Mr. Hogan and Mrs. Hogan when we were kids.)
DeleteGreat post! Nick and I were JUST talking about this, especially after Kim's shower. I always called my friends parent Mr. And Mrs. even when they called other parents by their first names. I still call my childhood's friend Mr. and Mrs. even when they tell me not to anymore. Hard to break the habit.
ReplyDeleteNick and I agree with you on this. We are Mr and Mrs people. But sometimes I skip and introduce my kids to friends with first names.
What do you think about siblings godparents? For example, I let Clark call Ashley by her first name and I've let him call Penny's godmother by her first name because it feels a little weird to me that I let one kid call a godparent by their first name but not let the other one do the same. Still thinking about this one.
I do the same with siblings for godparents. It just seems weird for you to be Nick and Mia for Joseph and Mr. and Mrs. H for everyone else. Some people are just really close to a whole family and so the trust is already there. Maybe that sounds contradictory, but it's how we've played it out so far.
DeleteWhat about uncles and aunts? We always grew up just saying their first names, not Aunt/Uncle So-and-so.
DeleteYup, I feel the same way Bonnie. And Caroline, we grew up always using Aunt and Uncle before the first names, so that is what we have our children do with their aunts and uncles.
DeleteWe grew up with Aunt and Uncle before first names - my husband and I both - and it's what our kids do as well.
DeleteI had one aunt on my mother's side that insisted we call her by her first name only. I didn't like that, it didn't seem right. Even though I really liked her it was too familiar. Everyone else on both sides of the family we called aunt +name and uncle +name.
DeleteSometimes I *slip..
ReplyDeleteWe are the Mr./Mrs. first name camp. I totally get what you're saying however and I'm glad it works for you! But I also don't have school age kids and even our pediatrician is a good friend and is Dr. Julie. Maybe this will change as we age a little more and our kids have friends who are't just our friend's kids?
ReplyDeleteI used to be a Miss Micaela, but now I'm a Mrs Darr, and quite happily. Some of the kids I've known for a long time (and all my godchildren) call me Micaela or Miss Micaela. But otherwise it's Mrs Darr for all the reasons you mention. The funny thing is that it certainly seems like a pendulum-swinging situation. When I was a kid we didn't even call my aunts and uncles Aunt Kathleen or Uncle Mark. That was considered too authoritarian. I remember it kind of making me feel left out, like I wasn't able to "claim" them as my family. I am 100% certain my parents would make a different decision now, though!
ReplyDeleteThis was great! Our struggle is two-fold:
ReplyDelete1- my husband is from California, and there is very little formality on the West Coast. Growing up, most parents were Miss (first name) or just first name. That is crazy to me, as we grew up on the far more formal East Coast! But anyway, he tends to go that way.
2- Since we're young and still have many young, unmarried, or recently married friends (only a few with kids), AND most of our friends we are very close to and have known for a long time, it just feels downright weird telling our 2 year old to say Mr. or Mrs. So weird. I think when we meet people for the first time, or eventually when it is my KIDS' friends (not our friends/their kids) it will be more natural to insist on the Mr./Mrs.
We're both personally really used to being Mr./Mrs. though, because I was a teacher and he still is! And from youngins who are NOT the kids of my very close friends, I always prefer Mrs. :)
Interesting how you mention location! We were in CA for several years when our kids were first starting really make friends, and it was always first names there. Then we moved, joined a homeschool group, and everyone was Mrs. Last Name...which felt weird to me at first. I'm getting more used to it now.
DeleteGrowing up, I NEVER called ANY of my friends parents Mrs. Whathaveyou. Many of my friends parents and my own in fact were divorced or never married, so that has a huge impact.
ReplyDeleteAnd, when I became a mom, I also wasn't married, nor were my friends that had children, so we have all always been First Name Moms.
I do like the idea of being called Mrs Torres now, but it is a weird thing to just up and change after 6 years.
I was visiting family in the South and my step-niece called me Miss Amanda, and I kinda liked that even. I feel a need for more formality.
My husbands family is very formal in what they call their elders, i.e. children ALWAYS call family members Grandma Julie, or Auntie Lupe, or Papa.. etc... NEVER just first names, and my own family wasn't like that. (My mom told my son it was ok to call her Anita instead of Grandma Anita- my husband and I said, absolutely not). I am a BIG fan of showing respect for elders in that way.
We're all about the Mr and Mrs, and we don't care if that makes us uncool. Our neighbor gave us pushback about it at first, but now she thinks it's cute that my daughter calls her Mrs -. I think it's good that there are some of us out there that are trying to bring this tradition back. It absolutely breeds respect for adults and authority.
ReplyDeleteLOVE all of this but especially your number 3 and number 7.
ReplyDeleteWe called all adults Mr. or Mrs. growing up, I expect my children to do the same, and I prefer to be called Mrs.
Thanks for sharing this, Bonnie!
Have a great weekend :)
LOVE all of this but especially your number 3 and number 7.
ReplyDeleteWe called all adults Mr. or Mrs. growing up, I expect my children to do the same, and I prefer to be called Mrs.
Thanks for sharing this, Bonnie!
Have a great weekend :)
My parents always insisted on Mr. and Mrs. When I was volunteering in middle school, one of the moms said to call her by her first name and I wouldn't do it. She was so confused and tried for the entire week to get me to call her by her first name. I still call my parents' friends Mr. and Mrs. (with the perpetual exception of my godparents, who are Aunt and Uncle).
ReplyDeleteMy family is pretty Southern, so with our good friends we are all Mr./Mrs. First Name, except the ones who wanted to be Uncle/Aunt First Name. Most of the other adults we interact with the kids don't really talk to, so we haven't figured it all out yet. My oldest starts kindergarten in the fall, so he will definitely learn Mr./Mrs. Last Name, which I think is great.
ReplyDeleteOh, I should add that my mom has always been a Mrs. Last Name, and my dad has always been a First Name. It's weird, but it totally suits each of them! My dad would usually help out with the high schoolers at church (almost adults!), and my mom was more likely to help with preschoolers or elementary school kids.
DeleteSo since I only have one child who really isn't at the stage of having friends over, etc, I'd really not thought of this. But if I think about how my son addresses others, he mostly uses Mrs. First Name...but ALWAYS Ms, Mrs and Mr. His godmother and over very close friends he refers to as Aunt.
ReplyDeleteWe are teaching our kids to say "Mrs" "Mr" and "Dr" and we really are a dying breed in our area. I'm rarely "Mrs N" or "Mrs Last Name" by our kids friends, but am almost always "Miss Laurie" even when I make a point that my kids call their friends parents "Mrs" and "Mr". I don't make a big stink about it, but it is a little awkward to be called by my first name by a 3 year old, especially when my kids are obviously not saying that to their friends mom! It can be hard, especially with our really close friends whom I definitely want my kids to feel close to--but I remind myself that it's about respect, not closeness.
ReplyDeleteEven when my kids were two, they could pronounce difficult last names...try it! Most kids can or at least have a cute variation of it that is totally acceptable! And I have a difficult last name to pronounce myself, so I understand!
And to add to your list of reasons why it should be COOL to be a "Mrs. LastName": it is less names for our kids to remember! You don't need to remember every single persons first name--your child just has to remember the family name and it works for both the Mom & the Dad! (Two for one!)
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Thanks for this post. I do love the idea of when a child transitions into adulthood and can drop the "Mrs" and "Mr" for adults in a social setting; it's kind-of nice to have a defining time...even though my teachers will always be Mr. & Mrs. to me!
I too prefer to be called Mrs. Mena over Miss Gretchen or just Gretchen. Ugh, how it grates my ears (and nerves) to hear young children call me by first name. I allow the adults in our circle to decide what my children call them, though I try to be the first to tell their children to call me Mrs. Mena in hopes that they will follow my lead. Though they rarely do. Before I was married, I worked with the youth and insisted on being called Miss MaidenName because I was old enough for them to be my children, I was very settled in a successful career. Also, I wanted them to know I was an authority figure that loved them, but would also correct and protect them if needed. The other leaders were all called by their first names and were seen more as partners in crime or peers who would help them pull off pranks or get away with shenanigans. I was seen as the one who would advise them, pray with them, help them (and feed them), but not cover for them or participate in teenage silliness. I could have plenty of fun with them, but I always behaved like an adult, not like one of the kids.
ReplyDeleteExactly! What you describe is my experience 100% with the difference between the Mrs. Moms and the First Names.
DeleteThis is very interesting to me. My mom always told people to call her by her first name, but she was a total "Mrs.Mom" in her actions. This list is her to a T, but she never liked the formality of being called Mrs. The funny thing is she is a teacher now (late life career after raising children) and is called Mrs. everywhere we go.
ReplyDelete:) That made me chuckle.
DeleteSo regarding your number 1, would you say that you prefer to be called Mrs. Engstrom by say, your dental hygienist or other medical professional? I am curious b/c I used to be a hygienist and it never occurred to me to use Mrs. or Mr. for anyone other then sometimes the elderly. But maybe that is a preference for some.
ReplyDeleteLove all your other points though. We're Mr. and Mrs. too and thankfully it hasn't been a problem among our children's friends.
I was thinking about this when I read Bonnie's post--it irks me that I call doctors "Dr. Last Name" but they call me by my first name. Can I please have a little respect for all the money I'm paying them?? :-) Not sure what I would call a hygienist or nurse though. If they called me "Mrs." I'd be glad to return the favor, but it's certainly not the custom. . . . Also, fwiw, where I grew up in the South, "Mrs. Last Name" and "Miss First Name" were both acceptable. And now I'm fine with kids calling me either. As long as there's some title in there.
DeleteI grew up on the East coast where EVERYONE'S mom was referred to as Mrs. I feel so awkward running into adults who I knew as Mrs. but now use first names. My husband grew up on the West coast and things are much more casual there. I cringed so much at first when his parents kept telling me to call them by their first names (even way before we dated). My girls are still little and we're not around many non-family member grown-ups much so I've gotten in the habit of saying "Miss (first name)" when referring to or introducing....but the other day I ran into a friend who I referred to as Miss Mary to my girls and she referred to me as Mrs. Mayer to her kids, so timely post! Allll this to say I want to start teaching my girls to use Mrs. and I will too. :)
ReplyDeleteI agree! When my kids were very small, I had them call our adult friends by Mrs. or Mr. or Dr. and first name. We still do this with our closest friend family, but I have started to transition to having them call all other non-family adults Mrs., Mr., Dr. and last name. For all the reasons you state, but also because I prefer for other kids to call me Mrs. Smith (I LOVE being called Mrs. Smith!) and because that's the way I was raised. My mom taught me to call adults Mr. and Mrs. out of respect, and it always felt a little odd to call some adults by their first names. I still call many adults that I knew as a child by Mr. and Mrs. Great post :)
ReplyDeleteWe're in the south and for some reason, all of us are Miss Karyn or Miss Anne or Miss Mary. I don't know why but it's almost hard to say Mrs.! I definitely do not want to be addressed by only my first name, though.
ReplyDeleteWe're with you. Our kids call adults Mr. And Mrs. Except for the couple of families we are almost family to. As in, we have vacationed with them more than once and they have become godparents to some of the kids. Thankfully, around here, it is very rare for kids to call adults by first names. Actually, I can't think of a single one.
ReplyDeleteMy husband grew up in CA, and calling a mom or dad "Mr/Mrs So-and-so" was actually viewed negatively. You were a suck up, basically.
ReplyDeleteI grew up more like you. It actually made me very uncomfortable as a child when an adult asked to be called by their first name. And it is what I prefer, for many of the reasons you've listed. We've reached a compromise that a few close family friends are called "Mr/Mrs First Name," and everyone else last name. (Although we disagree how close is "close." So it is kind of confusing ... Sigh.)
Interesting. I am not exactly sure I can imagine any of my kids' friends calling me Mrs. H. In fact, the only person that calls me Mrs. is my endocrinologist. I guess I still feel too young to be a Mrs. For the record, I'm 25, been married for 4 years, and have a toddler and a baby. Definitely something to think about though. I don't think there is anything wrong with your opinions, but I don't think it is the only way or most correct way by any means.
ReplyDeleteAnother little anecdote is that my mother-in-law refuses to be Mrs. H. She absolutely wants to be known by her first name to everyone. I think it is her way of keeping her identity.
I'm from Seattle, born and raised all over the west coast, and I think this is a strongly west coast vs. the rest of the country thing. It is soooo unusual and even odd to have someone insist on using their title and last name. Even my son's doctor and teacher insist on going by their first names with my son. In fact, the only place I've heard "Mr." And "Mrs." consistently used is in a courtroom or legal settings. however, your stance is very similar to what I hear from people who aren't from the left coast. As for me-- I'm sure I would come off as "not from around here" and cold if I insisted on using "Mrs.___" around here... But if we lived elsewhere, I would probably change my stance. I think it's important to understand the ramifications based on the local culture. A "when in Rome" type of thing.
ReplyDeleteEven though, I'm a Mrs. Mom in terms of attitude and expectations, I'm honestly most comfortable as "Jen" or Ms. Jen. The reasons: 1.) I'm a pastor's wife which creates an interesting issue with how to address me because pastors in our tradition are usually "Pastor First Name" with the kids, and 2.) my last name is hyphenated in reverse order and is composed of two names that trip people up in terms of pronunciation on their own.
ReplyDeleteI refer to other adults by title (ex: Mr. Brown) in front of my son though. If they insist on him calling them by their first name, it's Mr./Mrs. First Name. I also still have the hardest time calling all of the Mrs. Moms in my life by their first names!
It's the funniest thing being 19-going-on-20 and figuring out what to call people. For example, I know two couples at my parish and the husbands are brothers - I call one couple by Mr. and Mrs. Last Name and the other couple by their first names, because the wife in the second couple is my friend's cousin and she always refers to her by her first name. It still throws me when I'm introduced as Miss Claire or Miss Last Name. When I was working as a track manager (16-18), I often got called ma'am or miss by runners who didn't know me and it would always throw me off.
ReplyDeleteI grew up calling almost everyone Mr. and Mrs. and still do for the most part, even if I'm closer in age to them than their youngest child. I guess the tipping point really comes if I'm closer in age to them than to their oldest child, but even that isn't a given.
I am in the south and like so many others, it is Miss. plus first name in our house. My friends kids call me Ms Prudence and kids whose parents are not southern, call me Prudence. We are also Hispanic and my kids call their godparents Nino/Nina (short for padrino and madrina). My Hispanic friends kids call me Señora.
ReplyDeleteI am a cool fun mom and completely okay with it. All my friends kids LOVE to come over. Sometime I interact with them, sometimes I don't. I am not their friend. However, I always acknowledge them and make them feel important.
With that being said, I absolutely demand respect from kids (mine and others). I also treat these kids with respect too,It is yes ma'am, no ma'am, yes sir, no sir, please and thank you for both parties.
There will be no beer drinking and rule breaking in my house.
Everyone's kids are required to clean up after themselves. No toy dumping. No furniture jumping. All kids are required to be respectful. Even kids whose homes are more loose than mine comply. There are no complaints/whining from other peoples kids or you don't get to come back for a while. That is just how we roll.
So, Ms Mrs Miss, first name, last name, señora, It really doesn't matter to me as long as there is an underlying understanding of love and respect.
PS
I taught CCD at an inner city church. My class had several kids that were in gangs, drop outs, real rough kids who were there because their mom pushed them out of the house and physically plopped them in their seats. I called them by Mr/Miss plus first name. They giggled at first then as the year progressed, they started to like the title and behaved as such. There is something to it!
I am called Mrs. Saint by my friends' children and my children's friends, except to the children of five of my high school friends. We all had children and got married young (almost right out of high school). We didn't feel up to the title of Mr. and Mrs. yet, so our children referred to us by our first names. Now that I am older and have been married for almost twenty years, Mrs. Saint is what I prefer to be called by children. Just don't call me Miss Erica. I hate being called Miss Erica. Blech.
ReplyDeleteI don't like Miss Bonnie, either. I don't know how all the people are actually pronouncing it with their accents, but here Miss is said just like it's written and is for single women. Ms. is pronounced "mizz" and is for women who either choose to be called that because they're divorced, an old maid, or like my irl friend Alicia above who wanted to distinguish between her mother-in-law but also note that she's not single.
DeleteHonestly, how it works in our family's situation is that a) I don't know most of the kids' classmates very well = Mrs. E b) *I* may be close to the parents but I don't have much of a relationship with their children = Mrs. c) My husband and I are close with the parents and we are godparents for their kids and/or they are godparents for ours = first name basis.
Yes, here Miss is pronounced how it is spelled.
DeleteAnd your examples are perfect. And very similar to my situation. You just did a much better job of explaining! Ha! :)
When my children were young, I actually approached this from the other perspective. I instructed my children to call adults Mr./Mrs. Last Name, but I didn't tell my friends' children what to call me. My preference for Mr./Mrs. led to friction with one of my closest friends who wanted my children to call her by her first name (or maybe Ms. First Name would have been acceptable to her). She reluctantly followed suit and had her children call me Mrs. Last Name (even though I did not request that), although she always had a slight edge in her voice when she referred to me that way. As adults, my children have not transitioned to calling adults (even our very closest friends) by their first names. -nancyo
ReplyDeleteWhere we are from in the south, it would be rude for me to call an older lady that I'm close with Mrs. Last name. It would be a wound or a formality that puts distance in the relationship. Mrs. First name down home conveys all of your seven points. It's a cultural thing. Now in the beginning of a relationship, I would say mrs. Last name has been used. I remember it being a big emotional step in your relationship with that person. We were more apt to go to Mrs. First name before a lesser known or trusted mrs. Last name. It's an interesting cultural difference.
ReplyDeleteSo what's interesting to me, Ashley, is that you are saying Mrs. First Name while so many others from the south are insisting on Miss First Name. Are they interchangable?
DeleteIn the Midwest it can be taken as an insult to be called Miss - it does not recognize the marriage or seems that you are calling a woman immature.
I wouldn't really mind as much if some of my kids' playmates - the ones we know better - called me Mrs. Bonnie when they were in my home. However, at school, church, or any time there would be a mix of kids - ones we knew better and others not so well - I would prefer for everyone to just call me Mrs. Engstrom.
I agree in a mixed situation! Only those real really kids pull the Mrs. Ashley card if they don't know me. Usually, a parent sheepishly shushes though. Or one dad said to his son, "you don't know that lady from adam! Find out what family she belongs to!".
DeleteIn MS and LA, I've heard Miss/Mrs. Used interchangeably with out offence. But we also have ma'am card to pull out in sticky situations! I don't know if the mid-west finds that offensive. I really really dislike not hearing a ma'am conceded to a child's yes or no.
*really really rascally kids (sorry my phone is autocorrecting odd)
DeleteYou know, ma'am doesn't get used very often, but mostly strangers. My kids will say, "YES, MA'AM!" and do a salute and march away, which is cute. I don't think anyone would be offended but I have heard many women feel that was too formal. So how funny is that?! Mrs. Lastname = not too formal; Ma'am = too formal. :)
DeleteWhen I was growing up, less familiar adults were "Mrs. Last Name" and close family friends were "Aunt/Uncle First Name." This may have been influenced by the lack of actual aunts and uncles in my life, or it may be somewhat regional--many of my friends refer to themselves as "Auntie First Name" around friend's children.
ReplyDeleteI grew up in the military. Every man I knew had a rank, and every woman was Mrs. Somebody—unless she was an unmarried teacher, and then she was Miss Somebody.
ReplyDeleteI am the youngest in my family by seven years, and at first it was a struggle to get family members to recognize that I was grown up. One of my ambitions was to be called Aunt Melissa. My aunts were all Aunt Somebody, and I wanted that, too. For me, it was all about being respected.
My husband's family doesn't call anybody Aunt X or Uncle Y, and my siblings have taught their kids to call me by my first name. My kids call most of their (many) aunts and uncles Aunt X and Uncle Y, and they are teaching their children to do the same. I have asked various nieces and nephews to call me Aunt Melissa. That amuses them, but they try to remember to do it.
Fortunately, my kids' friends all called parents Mr. X and Mrs. Y, so I didn't have to assert my adulthood with them. They mostly called me Mrs. H-K, which was just fine. They have now all graduated from college, and I have told several of them that they may call me Melissa now, but mostly they don't want to. That's okay.
However, I now live in an area where everybody introduces me as Melissa. I feel bad correcting them, but I'd really rather be Mrs. Hunter-Kilmer. Mrs. H-K is fine, and so is Oma, which is the name I use when I'm running my pumpkin patch. (It's German for "Grandma.") My neighbors think I'm pretty weird to insist on some kind of title, but darn it, names are important!
I came back here to read all the comments and I love this conversation! Melissa's comment "names are important" reminded me of a quote I love from "You've Got Mail" Last names ARE important! They're about being part of something bigger than yourself - part of a family :)
ReplyDeletehere's the quote :)
"Joe"? "Just call me Joe"? As if you were one of those stupid 22-year old girls with no last name? "Hi, I'm Kimberly!" "Hi, I'm Janice!" Don't they know you're supposed to have a last name? It's like they're an entire generation of cocktail waitresses."
hehe!
I love this article! I've never given this much thought and would totally have gone the cool mom route, but now I really want to try this (my kids are still little) I'm curious about your opinion on the aunt and uncle title. My siblings mostly live far away, so when we are with them, I want my kids to be able to feel as close to their aunt and uncle as is possible in a week long vacation. But I also think the title can be taught to be endearing. What are your thoughts?
ReplyDeleteI grew up in the south too, and it really is a cultural thing that carries a totally different weight. Miss First Name is standard and expected and Mrs Last Name was reserved for older women, like your friends grandparents. (But even then, if you were close enough, you called them whatever they asked to be called.) I originally hailed from New York so I was lost on this concept. But even there, our closest friends all had nick names for the adults. I truly think that a lot depends on where you live and ultimately... It's a small potatoes issue that I wouldn't ever stress about.
ReplyDeleteSo interesting! When my kids were little, and I was a very young mom with very young, mostly single friends, I instructed my kids to call them Miss Mary, Mr. Matt, etc. no matter their state in life. But now that I work in a school, am ahem older, and most of my friends are married and raising kids, we instruct our kids to call them Mr. and Mrs. Last Name. We still have some young single people in our life (like babysitters) that we call Miss First Name. I guess it was a gradual transition based on what people started calling me at work and what my kids started calling their teachers at school. Suddenly saying Mrs. Last Name seemed correct!
ReplyDeleteI grew up on the East Coast and always called adults "Mr/Mrs/Ms." Also, we call our aunts and uncles "Aunt/Uncle ____" around here, and it's very affectionate.
ReplyDeleteI feel a little sad reading this in the comments comments...why is "Miss" or "Ms." associated with being immature or an "old maid?" It's a sad slander against them. Finding a spouse in life is a blessing from God. Discerning marriage, and then carrying the cross of not finding a spouse, well, I think they deserve better than being called immature.
A woman who is young and single should be called Miss, I think and so I was in no way calling a young woman who is single immature in a silly or negative way. I am sorry it read that way.
DeleteI have heard the term Miss used towards older women (married or not married) as an insult. Like a "listen here, Missy" kind of a way. So then Miss *is* being used to express a lack of experience / knowledge / wisdom / dignity instead of simply being a respectful way to address a single, young woman.
Old maid, that one probably did hurt and I apologize for that, but I don't think Ms. being used for older single women is insulting. It's a way of acknowledging that they are older and with that they become an authority, a role model, a leader...
I hope that clears up my position and lessens the sting.
I work as a school bus driver and during the school year, I drive for my kid's school. I ask them to call me Mrs. Almeida cause that is how they know me from around church and school, my husband is in the KofC and coaches basketball. During the summer, I driver special needs summer school routes. I tell the kids to call me Miss Jen. Its short and simple and many kids forget my last name. It shows respect. I will also respond to Mrs Bus Driver if needed.
ReplyDeleteI'm in a boarderline Southern State, so I get a choice from other parents to have their kids call me "Miss Abigail" or "Mrs. Benjamin." Manners are huge with everyone so I've never met one kid who would call me straight-up plain "Abigail."
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ReplyDeleteMy husband is a southerner. Our kids say "yes, sir/ma'am" and address adults as Mr./Miz First Name. So I'm Miz Laura. Always Miz, never Ms. Don't mind that they're pronounced the same. The kids know the difference. I've only ever been addressed by my last name by telemarketers. The honorific is a firm dividing line between adults and children. Close family friends are Aunt or Uncle. Priests are Father First Name. With a few rare exceptions. There is no difference in either orthodoxy or liturgical style, just regional preference.
ReplyDeleteThat last bit about the priests is really interesting to me. So many of the priests of my childhood who went by Fr. First Name were less orthodox and so many of the Fr. Last Names were orthodox but any more - at least in my diocese - I see that being less of an issue. I still prefer to call priests by their last names until directed to do otherwise, except for our associate pastor - a wonderful, orthodox Ugandan with a last name I would stumble on until he receives his doctorate and returns to Africa. :)
DeleteAnd then there was the summer I spent interning in San Francisco. I contacted the Newman Center at the "Catholic" university to see if they had any summer events and called the priest Father Last Name. He told me to just call him John and I decided I wouldn't call him anything and never tried there again.
I'm late to the commenting party, but I loved this post, Bonnie. :) Being single and 30 but also an authority figure for lots of kids as a teacher has put me into some interesting name conundrums. In my classroom, I'm Miss Bogner. I prefer that the parents refer to me as Miss Bogner, so I always refer to them as Mr. & Mrs. Soandso. It is super interesting to me when they really want me to call them by their first names. To my friends' kids, I'm Katie or Aunt Katie, which is just fine with me. Close friends that have kids who have grown up knowing me- this seems the best fit. Someday when we are talking about older kids who are friends of acquaintances or friends of my own kids, I would prefer Mrs. Somebody. But the stickler comes in my church work. When I started my DRE job, I was freshly minted out of college and all "just-call-me-Katie" to the kids because anything else seemed weird. I can't really change it now, as some of the kids I work with have been calling me Katie for 8 or more years, but there is something about it makes me wish that the standard for volunteers at our church was Mr./Mrs./Miss. And I agree that the Miss Katie thing reminds me of being a preschool teacher- I'm not a fan. Thanks for starting this discussion!
ReplyDeleteVery interesting points and thorough discussion from everyone here. I think a lot of it (obviously) goes into culture - regional culture as well as family or community culture. For us, Mrs. Last Name is way too formal except perhaps in the classroom. For those of us who work with youth outside of school (and even still, quite a few teachers too), Miss - or as I say it - Ms. is way more appropriate. No one refers to adults by their first names (which is how it should be!) and even as an adult, I haven't drifted from referring to adults I previously addressed with a title in the same way as I always have. It really becomes more uncomfortable for the young college graduate starting their career (ESPECIALLY if the now-employee had a previous youth/mentor relationship with a now-coworker). I also find it to be strange/unclear as to how kids whose parents are friends refer to these adults. When the kids are school age and adults are 30s+, it makes sense to include the title but I have friends in their 20s with kids who are learning to talk and it seems weird to be a Ms., even though I am Ms. at work...I have been friends with these kids' parents since WE were kids. All things considered, it is good to err on the side of formality here.
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